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Post by Kay Jensen on Aug 29, 2005 15:59:34 GMT -5
[glow=green,2,300]I belive that it is in fact Harry Potter's fault that Sirius black is dead. Now this just may be me but I really think Sirius black would still be alive if Harry didnt have a memory problem.[/glow]
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Post by Litanya Raven on Aug 29, 2005 18:08:00 GMT -5
i dont think he can be blamed. at least not completely. if dumbledore had done the occlumency lessons instead of snape, and had been truthful w/ him instead of ignoring him, then the whole thing wouldnt have happened.
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Post by Kay Jensen on Aug 29, 2005 18:17:46 GMT -5
[glow=navy,2,300]Ok.... Lets work with this for a moment. Let's say Dumbledor does try to teach Harry occlumency. Didnt Harry say that he hadnt been working at it because he liked the dreams? Didnt he say that he wanted the dreams to happen so he could find out what was behind the door. At this point in the book Harry was only trusting Snape because Dumbledor said to. So he was learning occlumency for Dumbledor only. So even if Dumbledor had taught Harry, Harry would have made sure he got the dreams anyway. Then when the dreams happen he would react in just the way he did. Rash and without judgement. If he had bothered to stop and think he would have remembered that Sirius handed him a package and said anytime you need me just use this. I remembered it. Harry could have used that to check on Sirius first before that whole thing at the ministry. But if he had checked the mirror that thing at the ministry need not have happened. That's why I think it's Harry's fault that Sirius Black is dead.[/glow]
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Post by Litanya Raven on Aug 29, 2005 23:02:43 GMT -5
when it comes down 2 it, tho, its JK's fault. lol. i mean she made harry forget ON PURPOSE about the mirror. so thats neither here nor there. but if dumbledore had started teaching harry from the beginning, then he'd probably not have as many dreams about the door, and it wouldnt have come to the point that he delibrately didnt practice b/c he wanted 2 find out what was behind it. and, if dumbledore had TOLD harry about the prophecy, then even if it HAD gotten 2 that point, it wouldnt have mattered b/c he would have already known what was behind it.
and then its also inadvertantly sirius's fault for telling kreacher to "GET OUT!" AND 4 e/o not realizing he was missing, etc.
and then its also snapes fault for goading sirius all the time, which in the end is what made him decide 2 go 2 the ministry.
but then you could ALSO say that it was pettigrew's fault b/c he escaped, so sirius had 2 stay in hiding, not able 2 do nething, which also made him want 2 get out and save harry.
then, its also fudge's fault 4 not believing voldemort was back.
lol. im really having fun w/ this.
but when it really comes down 2 it, it was bellatrix who killed him, so its her fault, and @ the v/ bottom, its all VOLDEMORTS fault. e/t is really his fault when it all comes down 2 it. JK aside, i mean. lol.
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Post by Goldie Gilmore on Aug 30, 2005 11:04:15 GMT -5
I'm with Litanya on one thing: BLAME JKR!!! She killed him off  ! I think there are SO many ways that ONE thing could have changed the WHOLE book, but as much as I hated Sirius dying, I still think she had to do it. I'm not sure why, but everything would be SO different if that hadn't happened and I liked book 5 and 6, so I'm not complaining. But also if Harry hadn't gone to the ministry, Fudge would never believe that Voldemort was back, so I think it was worth it-not him dying, but getting everyone to know that Harry/Dumbledore were right. |
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Post by Kay Jensen on Aug 30, 2005 17:40:37 GMT -5
I just thought of someone else to blame. The reason it's Voldemort's fault is because Wormtail returned him to his body. And Wormtail escaped because everyone was too distracted by Lupin turning into a wherewolf and that's when he made his escape. But if Greyback had never have bitten Lupin he wouldnt be a wherewolf. So it's Greyback's fault that Sirius black is dead. There we go that's better. I was starting to feel bad about blaming Harry. My gosh, Jk has a whole chain of events going on, now doesnt she?
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Post by Litanya Raven on Aug 30, 2005 20:24:50 GMT -5
lol. isnt it fun? hm...who else can we blame? i no! how about fred, george, and ginny 4 giving harry the means 2 talk w/ sirius? oh, and DUH - kreacher! and the malfoys, of course, 4 telling kreacher what 2 do. and buckbeak 4 being born. but maybe we should blame that one on his parents. whoever they were. or on hagrid 4 teaching that class, or on malfoy jr 4 not listening and having buckbeak attack him. and on umbridge 4 trusting hermione and following them in2 the forest. and hermione 4 putting on that show 2 get umbridge 2 believe her.
hm...any1 else? i bet if we tried hard enough, we could blame e/o in the book! lol.
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Post by Goldie Gilmore on Aug 30, 2005 21:16:34 GMT -5
This is fun! It's fun to read! Hehe. Name a character, and you could blame them, you're right Litanya! When you get down to it, JKR is an AMAZING writer, how she gets everything to fit and connect! It's an unsolved puzzle, and it's sooo fun to try to figure out!!!
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Post by Kay Jensen on Aug 31, 2005 17:38:51 GMT -5
You said anyone in the book... How could we blame this on Neville?
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Post by Kay Jensen on Aug 31, 2005 17:39:08 GMT -5
.... Or Luna
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Post by Litanya Raven on Sept 1, 2005 19:15:22 GMT -5
i was actually thinking about that. in a round about way, they could be blamed b/c they helped harry go(?) or didnt stop him going(?) or maybe could have done s/t 2 prevent it in the MoM(?)
these r really weak reasons, tho. lets c if we can think of any better ones.
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Post by Kay Jensen on Sept 1, 2005 21:17:16 GMT -5
I've figured out how to blame it on Neville! Ok lets back track.... Bellatrix Lestrange perfomormed the killing curse on Sirius. Now this is a hypothesis. Let's say Bella was mad at anyone who would defend Harry because Harry sent a patronus stag at Draco and Lucius told Bella about this. And Harry performed a patronus stag on Draco because during a quidditch game because he thought Draco was a dementor but Harry wouldnt be on the quidditch team in the first place if Neville hadnt fallen off of his broom and droped his remembereall.... but wait... his gran sent it to him... SO IT'S NEVILLE'S GRAN'S FAULT THAT SIRUIS BLACK DIED! If my theory is correct I mean.
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Post by Callia Ashburton on Sept 2, 2005 1:53:30 GMT -5
i really dun think it was Harry's fault...I mean eventually...it was inevitable that Harry found out about the prophecy and sure enough there would be a duel because the Dark Lord's side would no doubt want to get their hands on the prophecy as well. And I bet that Sirius was happy to have been out of the house finally anyway and take part in a real fight after being cooped up for so long. Harry was only a young wizard and obviously could not outshine the mind of Voldermort who had had years of experience in tricking people. So yeah, I think the duel was unavoidable and it wasn't Harry's fault that Sirius had died.  |
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Post by Kay Jensen on Sept 2, 2005 18:05:20 GMT -5
I think the duel could have been avoided if Harry had gone to get help first........ Didnt Hermione sugest that?
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Ariake Long
5th Year
Healer Apprentice; Slytherin Prefect
Posts: 361
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Post by Ariake Long on Sept 17, 2005 17:11:30 GMT -5
Hi!
The 'who gets the blame' game was pretty funny to read, but if you ask me seriously, I say it's completely Harry's fault for not even stopping a single second to THINK before rushing into action!
Oh, and perhaps Dumbledore's a bit for not trusting Harry to be able to handle some sort of explanation. I mean, he could indeed not tell Harry about the prophesy out of fear Voldemort would then just pluck it from Harry's head, but he could have given the boy some rational reason that Harry could have accepted. Something like: I can't tell you exactly what is going on because Voldemort could just get the information out of your head and you don't master Occlumency, but he's trying to get something from the ministry and we're trying to prevent it.
Of course, given how utterly immature Harry is acting throughout the entire 5th book, and how he doesn't seem to look at things rationally for even a moment (he should listen more to Hermione, really! When she's giving rational advise naturally, not when she's going on and on about them not studying enough for example), we can hardly blame Dumbledore much for thinking Harry not ready yet to deal with the prophesy.
This has nothing to do with who's to blame but,I do think it a bit weird now though that in the 6th book it suddenly doesn't seem to matter any more whether Harry masters Occlumensy or not.. I mean what's preventing old Voldemort from just 'reading' the entire prophesy from Harry's mind?
I was just wondering. It is like a plot line without the ends tied up; a bit sloppy for what I've come to expect from JKR. I hope it gets tied up in book 7.
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! I think there are SO many ways that ONE thing could have changed the WHOLE book, but as much as I hated Sirius dying, I still think she had to do it. I'm not sure why, but everything would be SO different if that hadn't happened and I liked book 5 and 6, so I'm not complaining. But also if Harry hadn't gone to the ministry, Fudge would never believe that Voldemort was back, so I think it was worth it-not him dying, but getting everyone to know that Harry/Dumbledore were right.
